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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
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Posted - 2013.10.17 19:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I like this change.
I like to explore in nullsec, and I spend a ton of time in Goonswarm territory.
Want to know why?
It's entirely undefended carebear space, with nobody protecting it, nobody around. I can go 20 or 30 jumps around in their territory and not see a single goon.
However, somehow they still manage to run their giant carebear farm 24/7 and there's no easy way to shut it down.
CCP is providing us with a tool to do just that. No more just spamming POS everywhere like a crazy person, AFK'ing, and watching your moons print ISK....
Now you actually have to defend your space!
What a crazy concept.
Love it. |
Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
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Posted - 2013.10.17 19:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tonraks wrote:Weaselior wrote:Tonraks wrote:I must say i think this implementation and the idea of a goo sucking pos module, is a pretty bad feature.
It promotes afk play, and make pos-work even more bothersome and boring than it already is.
It's almost like you devs want pos's to a feature that slowly but surely gets to be a less and less used feature.
that way you can justify not fixing them because only a small portion of the community uses them! Sigh. Just my thoughts exactly. The thought of someone dropping a module, then going afk for a few hours, only to come back and collect goo...wow. what a great an immersive feature! - That sounds like a bunch of fun. Seriously CCP... wake up!
As opposed to going AFK while your moons print ISK and then just mindlessly going to collect it?
It seems to me that this is the pot calling the kettle black. Moon mining is already a passive feature....
Kiss full yields goodbye, and be prepared to defend your space, actively.
Either that, or cry like the goons. They are crying the most because they are going to lose the most. |
Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Courthouse wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: I think the goons by and large have done a huge amount of good for the game catching issues like this.
However, claims that in response you will spam thousands of these seems a bit silly to me, sorry.
You simply aren't going to find pilots willing to devote the time necessary every day to actually do an activity like that effectively. You need to check these things every, single, day... to collect the goods so that they will continue to siphon.
All jokes aside, I really do think most of your pilots will decide they have better things to do after a few days of that.
it's not about that. Every not-CFC POS we interrupt drives down supply, thus increasing profits on CFC POS-mined minerals. We spent weeks interdicting ice, huge logistical efforts to shut down Jita and we basically frogstomp hostiles starting by cutting their economies out from underneath them before actually fighting for sov. If you think we won't find people to harass lowsec pubbies by stealing and/or choking supply for our own economic beneift, you're sorely misinformed.
Except the biggest losses to price are going to come from the giant alliances like goonswarm.
You don't defend your territory. I know this because I fly in it all the time.
While you are out harassing the "small time pubbies" who provide a relatively minor amount of moon goo, your own infrastructure will be collapsing beneath you...
Which I think is, the entire point of this addition |
Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
11
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
xttz wrote:You're absolutely right. There's no way our thousands of players and trillions of ISK will allow us to grief entire swathes of space alongside manipulating the T2 materials market for further gain. I mean it's not like we've ever made a fortune from broken game mechanics like this before, is it?
lol.
this assumes you can "make a fortune" by using these primarily as a grief mechanic.
i find this to be highly implausible.
IF you siphon every valuable moon in a region, AND it goes unnoticed...maybe you got ahead? somehow?
But with this drop and forget gameplay, you can bet your ass people will start noticing them fast, and at 10m cost, with nothing in return, it's almost surely not going to help you any.
For it to be a gain, the 10m siphon has to deal over 10m in economic damage, on average.
I find this unlikely.
If you want to waste ISK to grief people, there are plenty of other ways, such as suicide-killing freighters in highsec.....Except the difference there, is that suicide-killing freighters can actually be profitable. I don't think burning billions of ISK and getting nearly nothing in return will work to your advantage.
I can see it as a legitimate disruption tactic in nullsec -- but things are different there. Often the goal isn't to profit off of an attack, but to just hurt the other guy as much as possible.
If you want to throw away billions for no gain, go for it, the entire community will laugh at you....
And while they laugh, they will happily obliterate all your moon mining operations in your undefended, overgrown nullsec territory.
Can't wait for this patch. |
Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
11
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Pinky Hops wrote: IF you siphon every valuable moon in a region, AND it goes unnoticed...maybe you got ahead? somehow?
i'd say "you'll see how" but you probably won't, you'll just assume the prices were supposed to do that
the prices will definitely drop, mostly because the giant carebear alliances who supply 90%+ of the moon goo (of which goonswarm is one example) will see their operations crumble.
this will make it more worth it to moon mine in general, but people will have to do it carefully to make a good profit, not just plant a fuckload of moon mining ops and nearly forget about them....like goonswarm.....
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Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
11
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
i meant prices will go up obviously. ill edit it, just for you, because you can't understand context and how neither of those paragraphs make sense without flipping a single word.
there.
now you can respond (cry) to the actual post, instead of nit picking semantics.
boo hoo, goonswarm. |
Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
So basically here is how I interpret this whole situation:
1) Goonswarm feel rightly threatened because people will just walk into their undefended territory and **** over their POS mining operations
2) Goonswarm QQ's for 20 pages
3) Goonswarm announces that they can do more damage than can be done to them...Basically they are saying they will burn the whole world with the same tool that will burn them....
So 3) makes me laugh. Goonswarm has a lot of players, but they certainly don''t have the ISK to sustainably do what they are proposing.
Some minor scratchpaper math shows that for them to even put a minor dent, they would have to spend TRILLIONS of ISK, and then the question is:
Does the raise in profitability from their own moon goo operations offset their spending trillions of ISK on on siphons?
Unlikely -- especially considering their own operations will be far less efficient. |
Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
12
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:
So 3) makes me laugh. Goonswarm has a lot of players, but they certainly don''t have the ISK to sustainably do what they are proposing.
Some minor scratchpaper math shows that for them to even put a minor dent, they would have to spend TRILLIONS of ISK, and then the question is:
Does the raise in profitability from their own moon goo operations offset their spending trillions of ISK on on siphons?
Unlikely -- especially considering their own operations will be far less efficient.
3) Hahahahahahahahahahaha Your math: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
start filling it in
1) how many do you need to plant to just negatively affect a single tiny region, let alone a meaningful amount of total area
2) how often will they be discovered/eliminated
3) how much ISK per day does it cost to maintain a sustained large attack
keep going, and yes, the numbers add up hilariously fast. |
Pinky Hops
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:There are maybe a few hundred R64 moons we don't own.
Let's say there a a thousand of them.
That's still only 20 bil to put two siphons on each. I could bankroll that and I'm basically a newbie. Jewbal-level 1%ers can buy enough siphons to do this hundreds of times. So can our socialist alliance.
This is chump change. It costs even less if we aim at only one type of moon mineral at once.
except there are hidden costs:
1) lost ships
2) you're being 100% naive, but this is excusable, since you are self-admittedly a newbie. nobody is just going to let you walk over to the other half of the universe and perma-siphon their moons. See 1)
3) whatever time you are spending doing this could be spent doing nearly anything else, most of which is probably more profitable and more impactful on the economy than trying to shut off 20% of a moon 40 jumps away, even if you succeed...See 2)
basically: good luck to you...rofl |
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